Eric Neal 5pts I was given to understand that the Swiss Government is unable constitutional to ask the Swiss people to overturn there referendum decision on the free movement of people by another referendum.As things stand at the moment the Swiss will withdraw from the EU requirement for free movement in February 2017 this is the end of the 3 year time limit date given by the constitution to impose referendum decisions.I quote: The hope of the EU would be that by embedding the free movement question into the wider agreements as a take it or leave it deal, enough Swiss voters will be persuaded to accept it as the cost for continued market access.I honestly cannot see how the above is possible under the Swiss constitution, if it was there would have been another referendum by now?
Bloody Alien 5pts I'm unable to understand comments here. For God's sake what Switzerland has common with UK problems? What's their referendum on Schengen has common with your referendum on EU?Switzerland joined Schengen agreement and become 'a country without real borders', as well as Norway - both outside EU. No borders, no border guards, no people and transport check and etc. etc.But Britain, still EU member, never joined Schengen Agreement and never opened its borders as almost the last country in entire Europe that still has the same 'real borders' like before the Maastricht. The only problem you are unable to guard them - you have not enough officers and a 'huge number' of FOUR gunboats to patrol your colossal coastline. In theory you have a full right to stop so called refugees, check their passport on your 'real borders' and refuse entry for the 'undesirable' without leaving EU, but the problem is that in practice you can not. Evan outside Schengen Agreement your borders are more than penetrable, so - this time Cameron said the truth - immediately after Brexit all Calais 'Jungle' will move to Kent, as the French (and the rest of EU) will have exactly the same duty to protect your borders, like to protect Russian ones.Yes, I can agree that you should learn from Switzerland (and not only from them) and the first lesson will be brutal: you should have referendum on EU before Maastricht, not decades after it. Think first, act later, but you, Brits, did exactly on the contrary.And one thing more: Switzerland, as the old and real democracy has referendum almost on everything and I have impression that Eire already learnt it from them. Your Brexit was a populist Tories' trick to win General Election, to keep political power - nothing more. Now they face the power of the British mob who still cannot see any difference between Schengen Agreement, and EU membership, as well as between ECHR, European Convention of Human Rights from 1952, and EU regulations on the subject.Eh, Brits, go to hell... And never come back.
Leopold Alcocks 5pts @Bloody Alien Surely Schengen (open borders) and Free Movement (the right of EU citizens to live and work in another EU, or affiliated, country without need for work permit) are two different issues: the latter is the important one for Switzerland. And the UK
JesperR 5pts Not sure if EU acts more as a nanny or more as a bully. Take your medicine and then you get your treats or the take it or leave it approach of the powerful arrogant. Neither approach is likely to make friends. Does the EU have any friendly neighbours? If not, then maybe there is a reason....Ah well, at least the Swiss (& the rest of the countries in the world) now know how they are regarded by the EU 'elite'. If this can't be negotiated then any and all future negotiations will follow the same precedent - the EU dictates and the counter-party can either submit or hit the road with nothing.But maybe the Swiss has some smart lawyers who can initiate legislation that keeps the free movement in theory but in practice the borders are again controlled by the Swiss. Tougher right of residence tests and/or special fee (not tax) for undesirable EU-citizens in Switzerland or something else to violate the spirit but not the letter of the agreement?
Bloody Alien 5pts @JesperR Holy Jesus! The Swiss don't need 'smart lawyers' - they joined Schengen Agreement through national referendum and can left Schengen Zone in exactly the same way. The question - it's their real and long term interest or not.
Denis_Cooper 5pts I can't comment at length on this, because I've got to go round to the shop and buy some milk. I know that will take longer than it should, because every time I go in to buy something the shopkeeper starts arguing that he won't sell me anything unless he is allowed to come back with me and move into my house. The same thing at the building society, actually, the woman there won't let me deposit any money unless she and her family can have the right to come and live in my home. And then there was the plumber who walked away when I told him that I only wanted him to mend the shower, I didn't want him as a housemate ... so I'll just briefly say that I can see this attitude on the part of the EU may make it tricky for Cameron to negotiate any reforms to the principle of free movement.
riceuteneuer 5pts @Denis_Cooper Yeah, that's EXACTLY what it's like. Facile and unrealistic exaggerations are usually what the far right use when common sense fails.
RikH 5pts 1. This is the worst way to sell it from an EU pov to the Swiss. People simply donot like to be told especially not on stuff they are supposed to vote on.2. Real danger for Swiss politics to ask voters to vote until they agree. No better ad for populists possible.3.If there would be a referendum and the EU would lose again (real possibility as trade fear might be balanced by sovereignity;, right on demanding a referendum and such, the damage would be irreparably.4. The UK should play it more strategically wait until a grexit (or something else making a treaty change unavoidable) and move to good old fashioned blackmail (hiding behind the voter). In other words demand a treaty change for Greece staying in the EU within a term similar to the 2017 referendum, and somewhat later combine that treaty change with a referendum . Then go talk reforms.5. UK should informally team up with everybody else that is not in the EU but has the same sort of problems as the Swiss etc.
Bloody Alien 5pts You will see 'Grexit' son like the snow in Britain this winter, the winter of the century.;)I'm afraid that Cameron - who like an idiot gave British uneducated and misinformed mob so dangerous toy like referendum on EU - will enter the annals of history as The Man Who Dismantled UK.Yes, I can bet you will see much earlier 'Scotix' and unification of Ireland, before you will see 'Grexit'.